Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Immigration Today. I'm Elizabeth Trifonis and today we're breaking down policies, stories and issues that matter. You're watching now Media Television.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Welcome to Immigration Today. I'm Elizabeth Trifonis and this is a show where we look beyond the headlines and the politics and really try to talk about real people, real families and situations that are happening to Americans and immigrants in America today and the challenges that we're facing today. We're talking about a question that sits at the center of so many immigrant families lives. What happens when it's not just an abstract policy or debate, but you actually have a loved one who is in detention and this is your reality and you are dealing with this in this moment.
My guest today is Alexander Carrion. He's actually a son of two immigrants and a longtime advocate for immigrant and migrants rights. He's been in this work since 2015.
I'm very excited to have him here both for my own emotional support as an advocate and to learn some new information to help support our families and individuals that are dealing with deportation and how to navigate some of these most difficult moments.
This changes the trajectory of a human being's life and their family in incredibly significant ways. Most recently, his work has focused on expanding low cost support for immigrants who have been detained by ice, working with volunteers throughout New York City to help families facing urgent legal and emotional pressure. Alexander, I can only imagine how busy you are with that work alone, let alone trying to get information out to people and to join in this type of broadcast today. I'm really excited for you to be here and I'd love just to jump right in and just ask, what's the story? What's the background? How did you get into this work? And tell us about your family and what you're up to these days.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: Sure. Thank you for having me, Elizabeth. Yeah. I have been working in immigration law now for about 10 years.
And the number one reason why I got into this is because of my parents. I'm the son of two immigrants. My father is from Ecuador, my mother is from Colombia. And the ironic thing is I actually told myself when I was in law school, I am not going to be that stereotypical Latino immigration lawyer, no way. And then look what happened.
The reality is that I did like try to push away from it a little bit because I've always felt pride for the fact that my father especially was such a go getter in the sense that he worked every odd job imaginable.
When he was in Ecuador, he was a dirt road paver. In the hills and valleys of the country. He, he was a gold miner for a brief amount of time when he was a child, and I say child. He was working since he was 8 years old and he knew that he could only make enough in order to get by, no matter how much effort he put in in Ecuador. But he always had hope that he could come to the United States, to America, where all the movies came from, where all the opportunity was.
He actually was so desperate to come to this country that he was willing to join the military which had a program at the time to become a resident if they were to join and go to war in Vietnam. Thankfully, he was the youngest of his family and there was a policy in place at the time. Now this is all hearsay, I don't quite know the terms of this, this program, but I understand that he was not permitted to be part of the military because it was the youngest of his family family.
But he eventually managed to come to the US of all things with a three day visa while he was on a.
While was on a trading vessel that was coming to the United States through the port in Philadelphia, got off the boat, watched the boat leave without him and he was here on his own at the time. Immigration was different that he was able to use the status of a half brother of his who had, who was a United States citizen at that time to get his paperwork together.
And if you can believe this Elizabeth, he got his green card about nine months later.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: Right.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: That 27 year wait that we currently have for types of categories.
[00:04:33] Speaker C: Exactly. Last time I checked, I think they're reviewing cases for from 2007 right now.
So that should give put into perspective how technically that position does exist. You can technically request a sibling to do so. But it's funny Elizabeth, in ten years of me working in this field, I've never had anybody who was interested in applying for something that would take them 20 years to get a green card.
So those are very rare. But that was the method that he got in order to come into this country and to get his legal status.
These days that just option just wouldn't be available.
First, it would be a 20 year wait. Second, if you come in through a trading vessel, you could be blocked in a number of different ways. I don't even have time to get into to actually get your papers.
But that didn't exist at the time. So what really drives me is to be able to give other migrants at least as much a chance to have a life here in the United States as my parents were Able to get. I didn't talk too much about my mother. She similarly to my father, I'm sorry, similarly to many people out there, but very differently from my father had a marriage before she found my father.
That marriage was to United States citizen while she was still living in Colombia. So she had a more straightforward and recognizable approach to getting her status here in the United States.
But again, both paths are ones that I want to leave the door open for the average migrant and I hope and pray that the work I do can help get people there.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: You work with one of those myths all the time. I'm constantly telling people I get a lot, especially being in rural Wyoming where people don't think immigration is happening, but it's happening here the way it's happening everywhere. We do have ample ICE enforcement from the interior of the country. But that myth that, well, if I did it the right way, then somebody else should be able to do it the right way too. And really how it's changed over the years very drastically with backlogs and technicalities and made up hoops to jump through, it is incredibly difficult and more and more difficult every day to help someone navigate it the right way compared to being a crew member and coming in on a three day visa.
[00:06:52] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. It's a completely different world today as opposed to, opposed to back then how you can get your paperwork and get this. I'm actually going to share something that's very funny and ironic to me at least.
Both my parents who I just finished mentioning are die hard Republicans. They are die hard Trump era Republicans.
And I do try to bring this up with my, with my father once in a while that dad, you wouldn't be able to get legal status today with the laws that they have right now.
But he, you know, like there's, there's something that I think I found is really universal about being the child of migrants.
Doesn't I have right now an assistant whose family's from Guyana. I have another assistant whose family is a mix of Eastern Asian countries.
And the both of them have told me the same thing. Your parents don't want to hear from you. They do not want to hear your opinions, they do not want to hear criticisms and they will never, ever apologize.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: That's fair. I think that's parents generally perhaps, I think in our office, and I'm sure you're the same when you're navigating these things with people, often the best you can do is give them the truthful, accurate information. And that may not always be the happiest conversation to be having.
But it gives them the straightforward, these are what your options are and these are what your options are not to make good decisions.
But I guess I just find a lot that in consultations it's, well, it doesn't work quite the way you thought, but maybe we can try this other avenue. Do you find that as well or.
I've always found, like I'm trying to put together a puzzle for somebody and see as many strategies as we can find.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: But that's what I always try to emphasize with anybody who is on the fence about getting a consultation.
A lot of times they don't know whether or not not they'll be eligible for a form of relief if until they speak to somebody. But very often they hear the news, they watch what President Trump has to say, and they just run on the assumption they don't have an option. They don't have any hope. So I find that the biggest hurdle is getting a client to actually agree. Come in, try, try our pro, get a consultation, see what's possible for you. When they do come in, you'd be surprised. They would say, oh no, nothing happened to me. Nothing happened in my country at all. I'll ask them several times and then the fifth time I ask, are you short? Not even a threat, nothing. Even though you had the nerve to cross through the border using cartels to get here, there was nothing you were afraid of in your country? And they would say, no, not really. I mean, my brother was killed by the police in a protest, but it was just like, oh, come on, tell me.
There's definitely something to be said about shaking it if you shake a tree hard enough when it comes to people giving their testimonies. But you'd be very. I've been very surprised by what kind of results I can get if I just have a little more patience for a client. Don't just go off of their first response.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: And I think a lot of times people will call for that consult thinking that they want to have their employer sponsor them, for example, and you'll get very quickly in the conversation that that might not be possible, but there's this asylum avenue or U visa avenue that once you build that rapport.
But yeah, talk to somebody knowledgeable like Karen Immigration, who can go ahead and know those strateg strategies based on the information you're being presented.
And that's the number one place to start. Go in, sit down, talk with Alexander and let him figure out what the best strategy is for you.
That's great. And when we come back. I do want to talk about what happens when someone's detained. We talked a little bit about benefits and sort of your parents story and coming into the country safely as we know detentions are en masse these days and what that feels like when somebody doesn't come home and what families can do to prepare for that and to understand what's happening when a loved one is detained. And we'll be right back.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more insight, context and useful information about immigration law and life. Stay with us on IMMIGRATION today.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Trifonis, host of Immigration Today on NOW Media Television. This show is a platform for clear, informed and compassionate discussion about immigration, the policies, the processes and the powerful personal stories behind them. We're looking for contributors bring insight, experience or firsthand perspective on immigration, whether you're an attorney, advocate, community leader, business owner or someone with a compelling personal story. Immigrant Immigration Today airs weekly on NOW Media Television and streams across Roku, Apple TV, iHeartRadio, Sirius XM and major platforms nationwide. If you're interested in sharing your voice and helping others navigate the immigration journey with clarity and confidence, click the link below to schedule a short zoom to connect.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: And we're back.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: I'm Elizabeth Trifonis and this is Immigration Today on NOW Media Television. Let's connect. Continue the conversation.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Welcome back to Immigration today. Stay connected with this show and every NOW MEDIA TV favorite live or on demand anytime you like, Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock nonstop bilingual programming in English and Spanish. And if you're on the move, you can catch the podcast version at www.nowmedia.tv.
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I've been speaking with Alexander Carrion and Carian Immigration. He's an immigration advocate and migrant rights organizer for over a decade now. We started to talk a little bit about ICE detention and in this section we wanted to talk with you all about what that looks like when someone is detained by ice. What can you expect?
What are the hurdles?
And really in the break, Alex mentioned that he wanted to tell a recent story to illustrate what this really looks like. And so Alex, as we were talking, tell me about this recent event and what it was like for this woman and her family in the church.
[00:13:13] Speaker C: So I currently go to a non denominational Christian church and one day I get a call from one of the pastors who's aware of my work and said that they had somebody in our membership who, who needed help. So I responded to that call.
By the way, all this happened about three months ago. I received a call from this woman, we'll call her M M Giving was in touch with me and told me that her sister had just been arrested by ice.
So very sympathetic situation. Of course I wanted to help a member of my church.
I got a, managed to get in touch with her and her other sister.
And what had happened was, and this is one of the most unfair, rawly unfair cases I had ever seen. Because at least with some cases you could say, well, this person did drink and drive, this person did have a fight in a bar. There's at least something to go off to say that there's some kind of a justification, even if it doesn't justify deportation or something. This was this extreme dream. But this was. I very rarely use this term, but this client was truly innocent. And about three months ago she had, she had been driving down the road, not drunk, not intoxicated, but feeling very dizzy because she had anemia.
And she was feeling lightheaded because she wasn't getting enough oxygen. She just, she was just hyperventilating.
She was swerving on the road several times.
Not so much that she was going to cause an accident, but enough so that she was not signaling correctly. When she was crossing over in Lane, she got stopped by a police officer. I just want to make clear all this happened in Indiana.
She was got stopped by an officer who conducted a spiel sobriety test, which is entirely understandable. And it got a breathalyzer done her. Also understandable, both came back negative because the officer wasn't satisfied with that. He told her that he was convinced that she was high on drugs.
And so on that assumption alone, he arrested her. On that assumption alone, she was put into jail and had to pay a bond. And this is what's crazy. On that assumption alone, when she paid her bond and expected to get out of her local jail, she was instead given an ICE detainer a 72 hour hold, which is typical for ICE detainers. And within 72 hours she was put in, she was released not into the street, but released into the custody of ICE into a federal prison and then moved out of state.
That's a really important item here. When someone is arrested for immigration matter, it's federal, it's not state. So you can very quickly have a local misdemeanor or infraction or even a charge of a misdemeanor infraction results in you being put into the federal system and moved hundreds of miles away from where your family is.
Meanwhile, this entire time, they actually took a blood work from her to confirm whether or not she had any drugs in her system the night that they had arrested her. But they didn't even wait long enough for her drug results to come back with the charge alone. ICE was called to take her away.
And I pick. It was around this time that I picked up the case.
I find out later that not only is M's sister completely innocent of any crime in that moment and hadn't even been officially convicted of anything, she had no history of arrests previous to that. She had actually applied for asylum affirmatively, which means that she had taken the initiative to file for asylum before she was ever in trouble with immigration in the first place.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Trying to do it the right way. Yeah.
[00:17:09] Speaker C: She came to the United States on a visitor's visa and which is generally for tourism, but realized that she needed help because she was in danger due to being the witness of a very serious crime in her home country and being threatened about it by the perpetrators.
She has three United States citizen children, all of them wondering where their mom was that night because she was. She was arrested and put in into a detention hold with no means of communicating with her family. Right.
To make things even more exasperatedly, this started taking it into almost a lifetime drama in the sense that I don't know if anybody would believe me if it wasn't true. Her sister, who is also in Indiana, is the wife of a pastor in her local community where she helps out in the church every single Sunday.
And they have four children of their own.
They were. They had to take in my clients. Three kids, a family of nine, all packed into a single house, trying to make ends meet while my.
My client is sitting in jail over a charge, not even an official conviction, for drinking, driving while intoxicated.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:18:29] Speaker C: It took us two months to finally get in front of a judge and finally show the judge everything that we already knew, which is that she hadn't been high on any drugs. We confirmed there was nothing in her system with the blood test. She had three children who were waiting for her at home, all United States citizens who were being traumatized in the middle of these proceedings.
And thankfully, this had a happy ending. She got released. But to have her family's life completely torn up.
Two months. And let's be very clear about this. If she lost her case, then she might have been able to pursue an appeal, but she would have to do it all while in jail. And if she Was found ultimately not eligible for an appeal. She would have been immediately sent home. Her kids would have had no chance to actually be with her mother, support her mother, or at least unpack what was happening in their family's lives. It would just simply have been separated
[00:19:28] Speaker A: hundreds of miles, too.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: It's not just visiting hours on the weekend.
[00:19:32] Speaker C: It's exactly.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: It's a very remote access.
Sometimes they have a tablet, but there's very few tablets in these centers and very little communication that can happen.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: They couldn't even arrange for a jail visit.
It was ridiculous.
To be clear, she was originally Indiana, and after several moves, she was eventually the last place she was left at was in Kentucky.
I was very fortunate.
The judge who I was working with on that case knew me very well, and I knew him very well. He knew him to be a very strong advocate for immigrants in whatever capacity an immigration judge can be.
We managed to like we. I. I'm very proud to say that, like, this judge typically does grant bonds, but for us, it was the lowest bond of everyone that we had that day. I mean, the facts really spilled for themselves. There was no reason for her to be in jail. She had done everything right up until that point. And she was just a victim of a single officer deciding that this was a great day to ruin her life.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: I think that's great. Our judges in this area. So our people in the Wyoming area are taken down to the Denver Aurora geo facility, and the judges that are there are now insisting that having one no driver's license conviction and an open no driver's license ticket is a danger to the community. And they are denying bond at this stage, which has been astonishing. I think the number two in our center, and I'm sure you're seeing seems similar, but there's approximately 70,000 detainees in the interior of the United States, and they only have, like, 30% of them have a criminal conviction in their history are the numbers that we're seeing.
And so it is dire. And so for your person to get bond, that's a great case that you were able to do. That's a huge win because every day it's getting harder and harder to manage that. And of course, em didn't wake up that morning hoping that that was what was going to occur that day. And the family probably wasn't planning for that occurrence.
It's really astonishing to me how quickly things can turn on a dime, but how great it is that she got to get back home and continue her process with some help.
[00:21:44] Speaker C: Absolutely. And that's why I'm really happy to be starting this program. I'm aiming to serve the community by getting as many bonds done for people who have a similar situation as possible here in New York or not in New York. Thankfully, immigration is federal, so I have the right to handle a case in any state that someone is willing to reach out to Me understand that like unfortunately, bond is the kind of thing that is too intense for most nonprofits to force fully see through for a client because involves gathering evidence, making a full motion and then doing a engine, doing a case together, what is which would be a trial in front of a judge, so on and so forth. Now what is really vital in, in getting somebody out, of course, is them trying to find the funds to find a for profit attorney who's willing to do this litigation for them. And that's very hard for them, for them to find. Because the typical attorney charges 4 to $5,000, if not more for a bond. And bonds tend to be done within three to four weeks or a month maximum from when the representation first starts.
It would be very hard for almost anybody to pull together that money, let alone a small, a small income, blue collar job, blue collar working family who's only earning minimum wage salaries.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: That's perfect.
[00:23:04] Speaker C: So this program is designed to drop those fees to the lowest possible $500 a piece so that we can pay for basic expenses, but also have volunteers get trained on how to handle these bonds so that people who normally feel hopeless and would rather just go home to spare the family expense have at least got a shot for a bond.
[00:23:25] Speaker B: And Alex, I'm gonna stop you right there because you're hitting on something super important. I want to spend the whole next segment on what you're talking about, what your project is, how people get a hold of you. Because that bond piece is huge, huge.
Private attorneys, we do charge a lot of money for bond and in this system, as you know, you're not entitled to a public defender sort of representation in this. But what you're trying to do is actually fill that gap of need based services for people. It's a real calling and I would like to spend the whole next segment talking about that and how your project is going and how people can reach out to you.
For now, we'll take a break and return shortly.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more insight, context and useful information about immigration law and life. Stay with us on Immigration Today.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Trifonis, host of Immigration Today on NOW Media Television. This show is a platform for clear, informed and compassionate discussion about immigration, the policies, the processes and the powerful person personal stories behind them. We're looking for contributors bring insight, experience or firsthand perspective on immigration, whether you're an attorney, advocate, community leader, business owner or someone with a compelling personal story. Immigration Today airs weekly on Now Media Television and streams across Roku, Apple TV, iHeartRadio, Sirius XM and major platforms nationwide. If you're interested in sharing your voice and helping others navigate the immigration journey with clarity and confidence, click the link below to schedule a short zoom to connect.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: And we're back.
[00:25:02] Speaker A: I'm Elizabeth Trifonis and this is Immigration TODAY on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: Welcome back to Immigration today. I'm very excited about this segment because we started to talk about bonds and a project that Alexander Carrion and Karen Immigration is working on that's so essential in the immigration context. When you're detained by ICE and you need bond, you may have the right to fight your case while you're detained, but that results in prolonged detentions and centers that are not equipped to deal with that, nor does the individual want to be in that. So bond is really that first step that's so important.
But when we have private attorneys that can cost more than people may have, there's this gap in services for people that do deserve bond and do have good deportation defense cases who simply from my perspective, are being bullied to just sign off on their deportation because that bond's not available to them. So Alexander, I want to hear what are you doing to try to get bonds? Who are you reaching out to? What are the organizations you need? How many bonds are you trying to help people with?
What's the scoop?
[00:26:13] Speaker C: So the way this is functioning right now is we're going to be taking it very easy on the very first week because all of our volunteers are students, students from school. There are people who are getting working with us in other non profits.
They're very new. I personally love it. I, I, I found my talent as a teacher.
I don't think I've ever actually hired anybody who had a career history as a paralegal or a lawyer. I've worked with graphic designers, social workers. I've worked with people straight out of school even once, an undocumented migrant and even a former sex worker who wanted a new career path. And the reason why I'm bringing all this up is because these people, like, I can tell they're eager, they want to absorb all the knowledge they want to work for, for this cause, but they're New. So the idea is we're going to assign all of them exactly one, every, each of our volunteers exactly one case and give them two weeks in order to handle it. After that, we're going to start. We're going to start slowly packing on the number of cases each one can reach until they reach what's their personal capacity.
They're being taught how to do exactly one thing. How to do a bond. How to do a bond. Right. And how to argue that case so that they can thoroughly explain what it is that the client needs. And with my. With my supervision and with my help. And of course, when we get to the date of the bond, I'll be attending the hearing myself, arguing their case. And the way I see it is, of course, we're aiming for the lowest possible bond. We're aiming for a bond to be reached for this family. But ultimately, it's about giving people hope, giving people an opportunity that they wouldn't normally have. I can't forget last summer I had somebody from Venezuela who had a whole family here. Like four or five people came in in support of this. This woman.
When, before I started thinking of this program, of course, I was charging the same thing any other firm does. Because the reality is we have paralegals, we have an overhead cost, we have time, we have to dedicate to it.
It's not that I desire to make tons of money from these cases, but there is a bottom line that we don't really have to. We have to be wary of in this work.
So I sat down with them and I had a full conversation, explained to them how much it would cost, so on, so forth. I spoke to the woman who was in jail, and she said, I give up. I'm done. I don't want to put my family through this. I'll just sign the paperwork. I'm going to go home. There was nothing I could do to convince her to wait because she had a good asylum case, Elizabeth. She had a really good one. She wasn't just some, you know, like a passerby in Venezuela. She advocated for an opposing political party. She was a very brave woman. But after being separated for over a month from her family, after being arrested for such an arbitrary reason, I think hers was.
I think she was driving without a license because she had the tenacity to come here and ask for help. And when waiting at that point, three, four years for her court date to finally come in, she just ran out of hope.
Right?
Right.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: I think that's why the bond piece is so important, because we know that if bond is granted and paid, then the backlogs in these cases can be years. And that's years with your family and years in your community and years often with work authorization as well.
And that changes it. When you have a really good case, the pressure to just give up because you're in detention, I get that. I have a lot of clients that have done that. And it really shouldn't be that way. If you can do it the right way and you have a good case and you have the right proof, get the bond, work with carry on immigration, get those bonds done, and then slow down the situation, reunite with your family and regroup. We know that if we just sign off on a deportation and give up, then really the current administration, if you will, wins the day.
It takes people who can stand up and do the bonds and people who are willing to fight for that to push back.
So it's really an impressive thing that you're trying to do. What kind of support are you looking for more volunteers to come join your group?
I guess. How do. How does maybe an immigrant in need and their family reach you? And how does maybe someone who wants to volunteer with the organization or become a part of that? What should they do to reach out to you?
[00:30:48] Speaker C: Absolutely. For both of those things, they can simply reach out to us by our email or by our phone number.
We are happy to speak to anybody whose family has recently been arrested and detained. And I don't want this to sound like we're disqualifying or qualifying anyone, no matter what your history is. Even if there was a crime that involves violence, even if there was a crime that involves.
That involves a darker part of someone's history. We don't believe in defining people by the worst moments that they've had in their lives.
We want to be able to see how we can help you get reconnected to your husbands, to your wives, to your children, and to volunteers as well. I have seen so many people have such a passion to try to help out. I have the pleasure of going to court every day and seeing all these people, they call them friends of the court, who are passing out like know your rights flyers, who are trying to sit with people who don't unspeak a word of English and help them fill out their form forms and so that they don't get deported immediately.
I have seen nothing but passion from these people who are not paid to do it. They're only doing it for the heart of it. The only problem is they're not being properly trained and if they were properly trained, I think that would make a world of a difference of how they can be of help to these migrants.
So by phone or by email, I will speak to anybody and I do not care if whoever's listening. I do not care what your passes. I do not hear what your experience experiences. I've specialized myself in being able to train immigration in a way that I believe is the most easily consumable.
And if you have a passion for it, I have a passion for having you on be on board.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: That's fantastic. And just sort of, I think as we come into the next segment and wanting to talk about what hope there is in being prepared and having those resources, is there a few basic things that you would suggest people gather just to be a little bit of ahead of maybe this emergency or maybe like M and getting detained unexpectedly. Do you have any suggestions for some preparedness and what documents or resources you might suggest?
[00:32:58] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So this brings me back to one of my classes, so to speak, that I've already done with my with my volunteers as it is. So an example.
So I'm going to quickly, quickly, with your permission, talk about what bond is and how you prove it. I'm going to be using a lot of layman's terms. I won't necessarily be going deep into the case law or the statutes, but I will be talking about this so that I can make clear what it is that we need and why we need it.
So there are basically three pieces that you need to show in order to get a bond for somebody who's at least baseline eligible. There are some people who don't qualify for bond at all. I'm not going to get into that right now. A certain assuming that you could, at least in theory get a bond, you need to show three things. One, that you're not a danger to the community.
That usually is a factor because very many people are arrested by ice, if not at the border, then usually after committing some kind of a crime. Now this situation can vary widely because we have situations where somebody simply doesn't have a license. Generally speaking, no judge recognizes that as a crime. That is evidence of you being a danger to the community.
But the most common law. I'm in New York, I'm in New York City. They call us a sanctuary city. That has a lot of. I don't really like using that term because it's not a legal term. It's more of a political term meaning that the police are not don't tend to cooperate with ice, but Every part of the United States and every police precinct will at some point get ICE involved, depending on your arrest. So I do want to make sure that that rumor is stashed away with the most common crime in New York City that can result in you getting in trouble with ICE is drinking while intoxicated. Similarly, what I described in M's situation, unfortunately, depending on where you live, even a charge, this charge can get you arrested. So we have to show that that charge isn't final. Or if you've been, if you've gotten a final, a conviction for something like a DUI or something worse like a fight in a bar or even domestic violence, we have to get into the circumstances of it. So item number one, whatever it's do we need, I need the certificate disposition, which is basically just the final certificate that says what's the final outcome of this case? Or if it's still pending, it'll say that it's still pending. Number two, I want the police report. I want to get into the nuts and bolts as to what happened, the evidence of it. I want to be, if we have to deal with the fact that there was conviction, we not going to shy away from it. The immigration judge is not going to make a new decision whether or not you're guilty or innocent. But the judge does have a right to review and see. Well, what exactly happened here? Yes, he was arrested for a dui. Yes, his alcohol content was huge. But I seen the police report that he was actually sleeping in his car with the keys in the ignition to keep himself warm in the middle of December. These are facts that make a difference as to whether or not this conviction actually means he's a danger to the community.
And I also want letters if there was. I've had plenty of situations that started with a domestic violence dispute with police being called, and then they have, they have a crime in their record where it shows that they were in a fight. But then I've had situations where the girlfriend comes back and says, I'm going to be honest with you, I just didn't like him at the time.
He was very angry at me and I didn't like that. So I called police and said things that weren't true.
And so like we get affidavits from people to help demonstrate the context of what happened there. So that's item number one. I'll quick get through the other two. Number two is flight risk. That just means can we trust you to come back to court? If we were to let you go on any amount of Bond. Usually you show that with letters from family, you can show proof that you're taking care of United States citizen children or green card children or spouse or parents. They don't have to be your family. Let's say you're taking care of a neighborhood, have an affidavit of that that shows that those people are taking care, you're taking care of those people.
And although this goes into flight risk, my item number three is what's your form of relief from deportation? No judge is going to let you get out on bond unless they see that there is something that you have available to you that you're currently applying for that you could in theory win that can get you out of deportation. So if you're already married to United States citizen and never got started with the green card, now's the time to start. Start. If you are afraid of returning to your home country, we got to get into nuts and bolts on what the reason is because at least in theory, if you could win your asylum case, that's a lot of great evidence to give to the judge to say, listen, he's going to come back because he can actually win. Right?
[00:37:40] Speaker B: Right. And it's very incentivized. And sometimes I joke with, well, not joke with the judges, but, you know, judge, if he was a flight risk, we wouldn't be here in a deportation proceeding. He wants to stay.
So when we come back, Alex, I want to continue that conversation because what you've really started with in the beginning is how do you sit down with that consultation and be prepared and have these three things ready to go should you end up in a situation like M and needing to address bond and working to restore your freedom and your family. Cohesive unit. We'll be right back.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more insight, context and useful information about immigration law and life story. Stay with us on IMMIGRATION today.
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[00:39:10] Speaker B: connect and we're back.
[00:39:12] Speaker A: I'm Elizabeth Trifonis and this is Immigration TODAY on NOW Media Television. Let's connect, continue the conversation.
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I'm still speaking with Alexander Carrion. And in the break, I was really excited to hear about some of the things that you didn't like happening in immigration law and defense and also some of the things you're really encouraging people to move forward with. And I think you mentioned a term called black tagging and I, I'm very curious to hear what you think that means and to hear your thoughts on it.
[00:40:15] Speaker C: I wish I could be, I wish I was more clever than to say a word like that. But yeah, it's something that I came up with not too long ago because I've worked for many other firms before I started working for myself. And some of the factors that I've seen I have not been very happy with of my former employers, former colleagues. So the term black tagging, I just gathered from a phrase that from World War II, where if someone was injured, there would be a black tag that they would attach to somebody's person to indicate that this person, no matter what they did, would pass on so they would save medical resources by not treating this person and simply move them aside to with nothing but morphine to dull the pain.
The reason why I use this term is because I'm very upset with many of my colleagues who will often look at a case, say, well, in today's day and age, with the law that we have right now, this case can't win. So what they do is they prompt the client that they'll do the service. They will charge them the same amount as they would as if they were fighting for their life for this case, and then they will do the minimum possible effort.
I have seen applications that are abysmal with just the basic the form for asylum, by the way, is called i589. The i589 with a handful of documents that the client managed to bring in with with one or two articles to say, oh, this person's in danger. And then they go in hope to cut through the cases testimony as quickly as possible, collect their paychecks and go home.
I like to think that I do my job very, very well and I'm proud of my work. But sometimes I get too many compliments from people about the work that I do, assuming that my work is what the news tells it to be. And I know that somewhere out there there are a lot of people in this field who don't put in that work, who are, for lack of a better word, taking the clients for a ride and saying, yeah, I'll do the case, I'll do the case for 6, 7, 8, 9. I've heard ridiculous fees, 15, $20,000 for an asylum case and then do the minimum possible work.
The logic is, of course, well, if we can't win, what's the point of putting in the honest effort? But I have two responses for that. My first one is, first of all, they paid you to do the job. You do the job the absolute best you possibly can for the client because that was what they asked you to do and you do your duty. But if that's not good enough, I would say that the second reason is ultra important. In this day and age, Donald Trump's policies in the last year have done so much to cut out the legs from underneath immigrants who have had their cases pending for four or five even more years.
Asylum is so much harder to win these days. There are whole arguments for asylum that can't win now that used to even a year, two years ago. There are people who normally would be eligible for bond and now aren't eligible for bond anymore simply because case law says you can't get it. You came into the United States without papers and you were caught by the border. We're just going to say that you don't get it, don't get a bond anymore. I am speaking in very layman's terms, but that is the day to night difference that has happened in law these days and for many people's situations.
But the reason why I'm so upset about it is because these we've already had a Trump administration once and so many of the Trump administration's policies have been were repealed the second a new president came in.
I'll give you a perfect example. Domestic violence victims can often win, have been able to win for over the better part of a decade asylum on the basis that they claim. Well, from the cultural norms of my country, no police and no law enforcement are actually going to keep me safe because they believe, as well as my persecutor believes, that I have an obligation as A woman to stay with the father of my children or stay with my husband, regardless of how he, how he treats me. This is, in South America, is known as machismo culture.
And the government in, I believe it was 2014, came out and said explicitly that we agreed, we recognized that that's a basis for asylum. Because if you can't rely on the government in your country to keep you safe and you cannot remove yourself from this perception that you're someone's spouse, even if you physically leave, then you have no recourse there to keep yourself safe and you should get asylum here overnight.
There was a piece of case law that Donald Trump and his Attorney general had everything to do with called matter of AB that literally took that decision from 2014 and flipped the script and said, that doesn't work anymore. Gender based claims went from almost guaranteed winners to absolute losers overnight. So what did many of my colleagues do? They black tagged the cases. They said, well, it's domestic violence case. This can't win. Let's get your affidavit so we can do the minimum possible without getting, getting in trouble with the jud and just collect her deportation orders and move on. Well, guess what? Two years later, after that decision happened, Biden became president. What was the first thing that his attorney general did? He reversed Matter of ab.
So my pleasure was taking many of these cases and filing motions to reopen, reopen the case and go back and refight it, because now case law has revoked that original decision.
It was my great displeasure to realize that many of them were denied anyway and those deportation orders were made permanent. The reason why is simple. Because those cases had so little evidence and support that no one could say, even with a new review of the case, that this application at least really had a chance to win out of sheer laziness or sheer desire to allocate resources, so to speak.
I have a. There are many migrants who had every chance to win asylum during the Biden years that couldn't because people looked at the, the case law as it was in that exact moment and said, they have no chance. I will not put in the work. That's unacceptable.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: No. And I think we always say preserve the record. Preserve the record. Preserve the record. You have no idea what you're going to come back to or how this is going to change over the years.
And also if you don't preserve your record and don't push back and don't fight back, we know the outcome and the result, but preserving that record and really talking with someone who can help you do that, and making sure you're laying that foundation for that strategy in the future is paramount.
Listening to you, I'm very inspired, Alex, and I do this work, and so I really appreciate that conversation, especially being in immigration court all day yesterday myself.
But I think a lot of us in this work are tired and, you know, it can be grim. So I'm curious. You don't seem to have that take on it, really, or that personality, I guess, at the moment.
So what is it that keeps you going and how are you continuing to push forward in this very important fight?
[00:47:26] Speaker C: I'm going to tell you right now, I love my job, and it's really sad that I'm one of the few people in my field right now who can say that.
I'm part of a lot of immigration groups on Facebook, WhatsApp, so on and so forth and on. Hearing is more and more pessimism like, I can't win. I don't want to do this work anymore. I don't want to be in this job anymore. I want to sell my practice.
I couldn't imagine doing anything else, Elizabeth. And I think the big reason for that is because, well, I have a couple of things that are definitely going my way. The first thing is I have an incredible staff.
As I told you before, I hire anybody. I'll hire people off the street.
[00:48:03] Speaker A: I'll.
[00:48:04] Speaker C: I don't care. I'll give you the opportunity. So, because you're going to prove to me, by yourself, whether or not you're worth your salt, it doesn't take people, in my opinion, Elizabeth, people tell you who they are almost right away. You just have to listen. And so, like, I've had to give, I've given opportunities to people where it hasn't worked out for sure. But that process has enabled me to get staff members that I'm so proud of having be in my firm.
And we're not just colleagues, we're friends.
And by sheer.
Well, I don't really believe in coincidences anymore, but the members of my staff all come from my church. I didn't arrange for it to be that way. That is how it came about. I personally believe that one of the biggest things that leave me in a very strong position to say that I have a great job and a great position is that I also don't depend my personal worth or my personal work on whether or not there's an actual outcome that's in my favor. We do all the work we can, but we are realistic about the fact that we're in difficult times right now in this administration.
But at the same time, I don't believe that it all really depends on me. I'm a born again Christian. I came back to church about this time a little more than this time a year ago. I've been going to church now for about 14 months. Not very long, but in such a short amount of time. Elizabeth I've realized that I'm not the final decider of what is happening in my own personal life. That includes my work, that includes my relationship life, that includes my financial life. And so I've come to understand that so long as I'm giving it up to God and I let myself be put in the right positions and the right places. So that means that a lot of times we fight really, really hard and we lose. But we know we did everything we could for them. And as I told you before, you have no idea what the results will be in a couple of years. Yes, they lose the case. But you know what? The very next thing we do is we file the appeal. We filed appeal to the Board of Immigration Appeals and we keep finding the case there. They lose whatever. I have a contact who works in your circuit because there are 12 circuits in the United States that are geographically. Eleven of them are geographically based.
Wherever you live, we'll find the right circuit for you. We'll find the right contact for you. And you keep fighting the case to the next case, case up. And all I think about is we just have to do this for another two and a half years.
Two and a half years. That may sound like.
[00:50:27] Speaker B: And it's been ten. Two and a half is nothing, right?
[00:50:30] Speaker C: It's been like compared to where we've been in the past. Who cares? Like, I've been working this field for 10 years.
Two and a half years is almost nothing. We get to that stage, the law is going to change. And just like it did in the Biden administration, you have no idea how things will turn out in the future.
And I believe that, like, these are all things I can't predict. It's not up to me, though. It's up to God. And knowing that it's not all on me, that makes a world of a difference. I just spin my wheel the best that I can.
[00:50:58] Speaker A: Agreed.
[00:50:59] Speaker B: Alexander, I really appreciate your time today. Everything from learning about your family and your background and why this project is important to you, to those practical steps for Bond and how people reach out to you, whether they want to have that consultation, which is very important, or call and be a volunteer, something I think you said on break, but I want to be sure people understand about your practice is that as an immigration lawyer with Carrying Immigration, you can practice in any immigration court in the United States and the immigration judges do allow you to appear by webex all the time or show up in person.
No matter where you are listening to this show, please know that you can reach out to Alexander and his team.
His geographic location is not a restriction for what they're trying to do to help you all appreciate everybody's time and inspiration.
As I like to remind people here to have rights, you have to know your rights, you have to assert your rights, and you have to push back for something more hopeful in the future.
Thank you for listening.
