Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Immigration Today. I'm Elizabeth Trifonis and today we're breaking down policies, stories and issues that matter. You're watching now Media Television.
In today's immigration landscape, we talk a lot about borders and status and detention.
But what about people who have crossed another type of border, that border between past mistakes, if they were mistakes, and second chances?
Today we explore one man's journey from the brink of a life sentence to radical transformation and what it teaches us about community, opportunity, family and healing.
Today we're joined by Art Medina. I'm very excited to visit with him.
I suppose he was a once troubled youth who spiraled into crime. We could discuss whether that's an accurate description or not.
And earned a capital murder conviction. As a teenager, he spent years in solitary confinement before a life changing intervention.
Through mentorship, prison ministry and personal transformation, Art returned to his community a changed man and now works to help others rewrite their stories.
His life embodies resilience, redemption and compassion and the profound impact of second chances.
With me is Art Medina and his wife Sabrina.
Very happy to have you all here and to tell your story. I know that we've sort of discussed things a little bit in the beginning and early hardships and survival and crime and your case and how this path has led to a turning point for you and your ministry.
So I guess I want to start with where's the intro? Where do you start with your story? And it's really a hero's story and a story about faith and family. But take us back to that.
I sit as a public defender with people who, you know, we talk about all the time that they did not wake up today planning that they were going to be detained and have some life altering event where they were going to be visiting with somebody about you may be in custody for life.
Tell me how that started and what should people know about the beginning of that journey?
[00:02:12] Speaker B: I think the beginning of that journey and the spiraling out of control would be becoming rebellious as a teenager, thinking that I was, you know, 26 when I was only 13 and I thought I knew better. And sure, there were a lot of other circumstances that led up to that that kind of compounded the problem for me, which was I didn't know who my real mother and father were until one day she just showed up and asked me did I know who she was?
And I said, no, ma'. Am. And she goes, I'm your mother. And I'm like, oh, you got the wrong kid. My mom's at home. And turns out that was my mother.
And so one of the things that we teach our kids is to be honest, be truthful.
And I was too immature and too young to understand that the people raising me were trying the best they could to protect me.
And I just couldn't understand it all.
And I also didn't understand at the time, my mom was 15 when she was having me.
So those. Those were back in the 60s. And it was a lot more taboo than it is today, of course.
But it just really messed my mind up, you know, I just didn't know who to believe anymore.
And so I just got into a shell and just didn't believe and trust anybody because I felt if I was being lied to, who can I trust?
[00:03:52] Speaker A: Right. That's a pretty big lie, if you will. Or cover up, I guess. And then to have that, if that's not true, what else is not true?
Also, I think that age. I talk a lot with judges about trying to advocate that 18 is a very arbitrary age limit for an adult, and ages are fairly arbitrary. But I'd like to advocate that the adult age become more like 26 for people, because we don't actually consequentially think until much later in life.
But then if you're also behind the eight ball, so to speak, then it's even more complicated.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah, but at the same time, I don't want to use that. That's one thing I really want to make sure is understood.
I knew right from wrong.
The people that raised me raised me to be a gentleman.
They did not raise me to be a criminal. They did not influence me in any way, shape or form to live this kind of lifestyle that I went into on my own. It was because of my own ideas and thinking that I could do it. You know, I'm a man, so I ran away from home. And the next thing you know, you run into all these other people that are running away from their issues and stuff like that and teaching you how to do the wrong things and just you quickly.
It's like the old saying, misery loves company.
And so when I realized quickly that I didn't have a place to live, no food, not even a job, and no one would hire you, then. There's no other. At that time, in my mind, there was no other option but to sell drugs, steal cars, take cars to Mexico, and do all that crazy stuff.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: How many times were you arrested?
[00:05:41] Speaker B: Just that one time.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Just that one time.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: That one time was.
That was it.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: Can you tell us about what that one time was like and how it led up to that or what you were thinking when you were sitting there that next morning?
[00:05:55] Speaker B: You know, in my mind, I had been offered $10,000 for a Porsche and I had to take it all the way into Monterrey, Mexico in search of that car. In my mind, I'm thinking, okay, I'm gonna do this and then I'm gonna try to set it up where the woman that I was with at the time, because she was pregnant, I wanted to do the right thing and.
But it just got out of control. And in the process of the carjacking, a man died.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: And how old were you?
[00:06:35] Speaker B: I had just turned 17.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: And that was it.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: And looking back through that case, then you were convicted of capital murder as a teenager.
And the question here is, what was that experience like emotionally and practically? And I don't know if that can really be completely summed up, but I would imagine there was a lot of emotions and feelings and thoughts and, and.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Well, at the time I just.
I was confused. I was mad at the world because I just. Just all these different emotions going on inside of me and I was just.
The moment this happened, I knew that I had messed up and I didn't know what to do at that point. And so that was when.
I mean, just like that, as soon as it happened, we were already in a high speed chase and they caught us.
And you know, they say, hindsight's 20 20.
I think it saved my life. It really saved my life. And even though the state of Texas sought the death penalty against me, because back then it was.
They would give you the death penalty here in the state of Texas. Right.
I had to grow up fast, you know, and then, you know, going to trial and you're interviewing these jurors one by one and, you know, you hear the different people's views about can they give a 17 year old the death penalty? And it was kind of amazing how quickly we got a jury together, you know, that said. Yeah, I agree.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: Yeah. In Wyoming, we also have death penalty cases and there's only about 54 public defenders in the state. I represent one person who's 19.
We got the death penalty off the table, but he is looking at a life sentence. And sitting with a 19 year old contemplating a life sentence is hard conversations. And, you know, he'll say maybe it saved his life because he's in a much safer place than he was prior to all of this. But then he would just go back in a time machine and take it back and that back and forth of I wish I could take it back, but I know I can't. So how do you negotiate moving forward with your life or how do you be resilient under those circumstances? And when you were sitting there in court and dealing with your attorneys or this new reality, did you find ways to stay resilient or find hope or what was that like at that time?
[00:09:17] Speaker B: At that time, in my mind, I just didn't care.
I was so irresponsible.
I was so I deserved the punishment that they gave me.
And I am fully aware of the fact that what I've done is absolutely wrong. And I do wish I could change that, but I can't.
And then because I'm so. With all these issues, you know, these emotions and immaturity and the environment, all that is a dangerous, dangerous combination, especially with someone who has no hope, who has no purpose and has no vision.
And in my mind, I just felt my life was over with irregardless if they gave me the death penalty or not, my life was over.
And that's how I live my life.
And I was too chicken to kill myself.
So in my mind I said, I know what I'll do. I'll mess with supposedly the baddest guy there is and make them kill me.
And that way I don't have to worry about that. And next thing I know is I realize these guys really weren't that tough after all.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: You know, and here you are.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: Gratefully.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Yes, gratefully.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: I think we have just about one more minute here. We're going to come back and talk with Art Medina additionally about that transformation, how consequences can define a life. But it also lays the groundwork for the next question. What happens when someone begins to question every assumption about who they are and who they could become?
When we return, we talk about transformation from the inside out.
We'll be right back with more insight, context and useful information about immigration law and life. Stay with us on Immigration today.
And we're back. I'm Elizabeth Trifonis, and this is Immigration Today on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation.
You're watching Immigration Today. Watch this episode and all of your favorite Now Media TV shows live or on demand on Roku iOS or at NowMedia TV.
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We're continuing our conversation with Art Medina and his wife Sabrina, who's joining him today. And we left off at a position where he was finding himself really on maybe the verge of this transformation or just prior to it occurring.
We were talking about what it's like to wake up and find yourself in a situation where maybe it wasn't the intended consequences, but as you said, you knew it was right from wrong.
At some point, obviously, you're sitting here and the story changes and your mindset shifts.
What started to occur for you? What were the influences that helped that along or your own inspirations?
[00:12:26] Speaker B: I think I had finally reached the bottom, the very bottom of the barrel, where I had to come to the realization and accept full responsibility for my actions, combined with someone who challenged me in my faith, which I had no faith.
I had no belief whatsoever one way or the other.
But I was challenged about God and who is God and.
And what happens is I became a truth seeker.
But in seeking that truth, I came to the realization that I cannot blame my background or the circumstances of my Life.
I was 100% responsible for my actions, and I had to seek forgiveness from God. You know, I had to ask the Lord to forgive me, and I repented.
And I think that's the very first part of any way to move forward is understanding what happened behind where you're at now, and hopefully that if you have a chance for tomorrow, that you can make it a better tomorrow.
And I didn't go forward thinking that I was ever going to be released from prison. It was just, help me be the man that you want me to be, God, Irregardless of where I'm at, because I fall back on my upbringing. I was not raised to be a criminal. I was not raised.
I knew better.
And I regret what's taking place.
I can't change it, but I can definitely change the way I am today and tomorrow.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: Right. And I think that transformation is.
The transformation has to come before the freedom piece. Right.
You may have not ever been released from custody, but you still have to find that, I guess, silver lining or that resilience or that inspiration to keep going about life in the best way you can under the circumstances.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: Okay.
Who were those people that were integral to you while you were in custody that helped you along the way?
If there were anybody.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: No, there were definitely people that were instrumental in my transformation.
I can remember a chaplain who would visit me while I was in solitary confinement for 15 and a half years.
He would go back there and he would tell me. He would pray with me, and he would say, arthur, I know God has a plan and a purpose for your life, and if you'll just continue moving forward and trust the process, God will open these doors. I stand in agreement that he's going to open these doors for you did
[00:15:18] Speaker A: you believe him at the time?
[00:15:20] Speaker B: I did.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: I did. And so that's why, because he said, look, I know you are a natural leader.
You're a natural leader, but you have to learn how to follow.
And that's what I learned to do, is follow.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: So I think that transformation is often described as both deeply internal and incredibly difficult. What for you was the hardest part about that inner work that he was asking you to do?
[00:15:44] Speaker B: The hardest part was probably keeping my mouth shut.
That was one of them.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Sabrina's laughing.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: Keeping my mouth shut.
Learning how to control my temper, because I had a temper, and I was used to, you know, having my way all the time. And now I had to learn to be humble and submissive.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Incredibly patient with this process.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: How long were you in custody for?
[00:16:20] Speaker B: For almost 27 years.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: That's an incredible.
I can't wrap my brain around that time. I've been practicing law for 21 years.
I think about every day, all the work, all the people.
I just can't imagine it's time you'll never get back. But on the other hand, it's time you used wisely, I think it's fair to say.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Towards the end. Yes.
In the beginning part. No. I think part of the story is when I was interviewed by the parole officer, a day that I thought I'd never see.
And she says, from here to here, you're the worst inmate in TDC history, but from here to here, you're arguably the best inmate in TD history. What happened right here?
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Yeah, what changed?
[00:17:06] Speaker B: I believed in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, and I have not been the same since.
And I continue to say the same thing. I have not deviated, and my wife is here with me. I have not deviated from that path or that perspective. Because every day is a new day.
There's always going to be challenges. There's always going to be issues and fires that come up, and, you know, we just deal with them. I approach each day with an attitude of gratitude because I know I deserve to be probably executed.
For all intents and purposes, I should still be locked up. But God saw and had mercy on my life, and I am grateful for that.
And that's why I want to live my life each day.
You know, being a light, being assault, and really being a difference maker for good.
And so sometimes that means going back into the prisons.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: Right?
[00:18:06] Speaker B: You know, and, you know, some people who graduate, you know, University of Texas A and M, they give back. Right?
And in my case, I graduated Penn State, so I'M going back. You know, give back. And I. And I share with the guys, you know, listen, look at my life. I should never have been released, but God released me.
Don't give up hope.
Your breakthrough is right around the corner.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: But if you give up too soon, don't see it.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Don't quit three feet from gold, as they say.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: Trust the process.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: I find it's really interesting to sit with people in custody. It's very much.
I'm not particularly religious, but I hold that space with people in whichever way they're most comfortable doing so. And I always kind of relate it to being. It's the belly of the whale. You know, we're Jonah sitting there in this really hard space that is either going to maybe do a person's spirit in, or it's going to be that transformative part where we can find the silver lining and because of it, move forward.
When you go in for your ministry and thank you for doing that, I think that there's a. Unless you've been in custody, we sometimes miss that. Folks that are there would like to have done things differently. And having that compassion, that life is sometimes surprising for us. I find that there's very few people again that wake up in the morning, decide, this is what I'd like for my life to be in custody for 27 years over a mistake.
When you go in to minister, folks, what's your main message? What do you want people to know as you're coming in in that belly of the whale situation with them?
[00:19:49] Speaker B: I mean, you can only run for so long, you know, and then if you stop and think, you're really running from yourself.
And that's why you keep. End up ending up in the same place, you know, and why not try that step of faith?
All this your best thinking. I get very blunt sometimes. Your best thinking has got you here.
[00:20:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: And it's.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: How's that working out for you?
[00:20:18] Speaker B: And it's not working out very well. So, I mean, this is what worked for me. I can't speak for everyone else. I studied every religion there is on the faith. God gave me those 15 and a half years in solitary confinement to know the truth. And the truth was in the Bible. And it's not a concept and it's not information.
It's a person, Jesus Christ.
And I encourage people just try it out.
And if you, you know, don't. Don't be. Don't allow the past misconceptions of God, you know, interfere with that process. It's just you and him you know, and guess what? There's no guarantees he's going to set you free from prison because I approached it as, okay, God, I'm here in prison.
Use me as a vessel of honor here.
And I would minister to the warden, the captain, the lieutenants, you know, the guards and then the inmates, you know, and be the peacemaker there, you know, and help guys that are barely coming in and, you know, they want to try to make an impression on people. I said, if you want to impress anybody, press, impress the people that are supporting you right now at the worst time of your life.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: Right, right. You know, I had that conversation with my 19 year old just on Tuesday, long day of travel. I was, you know, up at 3am really stressed. And of course he calls the cell phone and he's just checking in because there's nothing else to do. Gives you a lot of perspective very quickly.
And he's very funny, so he made me laugh. And that ability to stay positive under the circumstances, I let him know he made my day better.
That's what he's endeavoring to do, is help the jail staff, help his selli try to still be positive and impact positive relationships along the way, if you can.
Those moments of transformation don't just change a life. They actually reshape families.
And I'm looking forward to visiting with Sabrina about that as well. They reshape neighborhoods and even systems. When we return, we'll talk about the reintegration piece, what it means to actually come home and build a future after incarceration.
And we're back. I'm Elizabeth Trifonis and this is Immigration Today on NOW Media Television. We're. Let's continue the conversation. Welcome back to Immigration Today. I'm your host, Elizabeth Trifonis. We're continuing the conversation with Art Medina. His life of transformation after 27 years in prison.
And he's joined with his wife Sabrina as well. I want to go back a little bit, Art. Just at the break, you had mentioned that you really wanted people to understand your thoughts and feelings about what you'd done in your past before we lead into that transformation piece and the silver lining of the story.
But what do you have to say to folks about how you found yourself in custody or your thoughts and feelings about your past?
[00:23:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's just really important to share how, you know, whatever a person has done, like in my case, I have to be mindful of what a man lost his life because of me.
And you can't just gloss over that. You know, There's A lot of hurt. There's a lot of pain, not just on my side, but on that side. You know, I have to be mindful of that. And I think that that is also a very important component for how I live each day today, because I should be able to honor him and that family and by living a repentant lifestyle, if that makes sense.
And, you know, we can't undo what's taking place.
But I'm sure that if they gave me an opportunity, you know, you can't legally do that, you can't go to the victim's family and stuff like that.
But I would hope that if they were to look at me today, that they would, they would be okay.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: You know, I find that's really difficult for victims to the understanding in the criminal justice system that it really is not victim focused or that's not really, it really is defendant focused. And for victims who want that apology or that restorative justice, that peace is not, it's something new that we're maybe trying to add. But historically we haven't had that. And I hope victims understand that too, that often we have people who are very remorseful, who wish they could take things back, but there's really, it's not allowed actually to be done. And so you do have to live your life every day as an example instead.
[00:25:19] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: After the years inside of the penitentiary system and 15 years of solitary confinement, which I, I can't wrap my head around, frankly, what did it feel like to be told you were walking out of those gates and coming into the world?
[00:25:37] Speaker B: It was almost unreal. And then when the day did happen, I was able to walk out the back gate and it was kind of weird because there were people lying along the fence from the inside that were watching me walk out, that they also were scratching their head and said, man, he really getting out.
So the guy that was giving me the ride home, I told him, hurry up, I think they might have made a mistake. Let's go.
Yeah. And then when I met my parole officer, she was the one that had to teach me how to use my phone.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Because, you know, I went in as a 17 year old kid and I walked out a 44 year old man.
And yeah, it was a little daunting, little nervous, but I was certain of one thing.
I was never coming back.
I was never coming back.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: I've done that walk with people and there's a sense of not really grief to be out, but the sense of you, you've managed to make it your home and having that behind you is what you've been working toward all along.
But it is a very unsettling feeling to walk into the unknown world that was continuing without you, really.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: And you were.
It was your home. And now stepping into this brand new reality, it's, I think, a mix of grief in some ways, to put it behind you and not know what's coming, hope that it's really exciting to see it. And it really comes in waves for people. I can say as the attorney walking with the person, it's one of the best walks I've ever, ever made.
It's really. I feel like the Eye of the Tiger song is playing in the background as we're going, you know, because it really is that culmination of a lot of hard work. But did you come. I'm just curious. Did you come out and you had to learn, like, the iPhone, because you didn't have it when you went in. And how many things were just like, you've been stuck in a time capsule?
[00:27:50] Speaker B: I was stuck in a time capsule. Just like that movie where the guy was locked in the time capsule for forever and he was let out.
I grabbed the phone, I said, breaker, breaker, one night. You know, it's like, yeah, the iPhone
[00:28:08] Speaker C: didn't exist at the time.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: Correct. Yeah. And, yeah, I just had this little low. She called it a boo boo phone.
It was a little flip phone. And so, yeah, I mean, it was.
It was quite an adjustment. But one thing that's been consistent throughout it all and what got me out was the Lord.
What's kept me out is the Lord and what's gotten us, our business to where we've really flourished and.
And, you know, being able to be successful is the Lord, you know, keeping him at the center of it all.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: We talk a lot about reentry programs and services.
What was that like coming back in to try to establish housing or employment or just those family relationships and moving forward? Do you have advice for.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Well, no one. No one would hire me. Right, Put it that way. No one would hire me.
And then when I did get the opportunity, I did not pay attention. I was getting paid minimum wage, but I applied myself to it. I worked hard and I demonstrated and proved to my employer that I was the best hire he ever had. And it ultimately led to us starting
[00:29:34] Speaker A: our own business somewhat out of necessity, maybe. I find a lot of folks don't maybe understand that when you do come out of the system and you have that felony conviction in particular, that you've lost housing grants, you've Lost student loan ability, you've lost support programs. And I understand the reason why we punish the felon.
I understand the concept, but it really is sort of kicking the feet out from somebody who needs the most support, especially. Especially as they're reentering. The last thing we really need is someone who's unhoused, starving and unemployed and hope that they don't re offend.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Correct. And unfortunately, the recidivism rate for the Nation is over 70%.
And that's one of the reasons why. And I think that's why the Lord has put it on my heart to catch them before they get out and help share with them a message of hope. And that, yeah, you might only get a minimum wage job, but you know what, if you apply yourself, God will give you exactly what you need. You'll get promoted, you'll get recognized, and eventually make more money to make ends meet.
So, I mean, when I met my wife, I had told her, you know, I know that on the surface it looks like I have nothing, but I have Jesus, you know, and I know that God has a plan and a purpose for me and that we're going to move forward. If she was willing to take a chance that I know that God was going to do above and beyond, we could ask or imagine. And he's done that.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: Yeah. 13 years later.
[00:31:19] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
When you're speaking with communities and I'd like to get into your ministry specifically, how can I guess what's your encouragement to communities to wrap around those individuals that are re entering society and what's your hope? Or. And how can people get in touch with you and your ministry? And I'll just give you the floor, you can instruct us.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: I mean, the ministry that God has put for us to do, we do a weekly Bible study.
And, and I encourage people not just to be snorkelers, but scuba dive in the word of God.
And so by doing that, I just trust what he says and he promises. He says, if you diligently seek me, he's a rewarder of those who seek him.
And we have challenged God on that and he's done it.
And that doesn't come maybe necessarily from a monetary standpoint, but it's the peace, our harmony, our love for each other, our love for our church, our love for our community.
So I think that churches need to step up more in their efforts for prison ministry because remember, they're going to come out and 70% go back. Why? Because they have no home and they have no place to go to or they have no support system in place.
But I always encourage especially the men because that's what we go. I go is set up an accountability circle. People who are not afraid to tell you the truth and to correct you and bring you back in when you're starting to deviate or do bad habits or whatever or, or just help you get there.
When we interview guys that come in for a job, most of them aren't ready because they don't have a resume. But that's because they did not take that time while they were incarcerated. They had all the time there to do that.
Don't think that when you get out here, I can do it now. No. Prepare for that before you get out.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: Right. I had an interview with Mr. Pritt Pereira. He had been Venezuelan political captive for a long time and his advice was really somewhat similar. Envision how you're getting out and envision what you need to have in place as you're getting out and preparing that while you're in and keep that focus.
You're right to step out into the open with nothing is a very.
A lot of people do go back, unfortunately. Sometimes it's more comfortable and it's just. What's not more comfortable but easier. The lifestyle is known and yeah, it's easier.
I think with communities and reaching out to people who found themselves a long term incarceration, we are seeing that too with long term detention facilities for our immigrant population as well. And just a note, what's happening right now in the United states is roughly 73% of immigrant detainees do not have a criminal history. And so we're seeing these long term detentions of people that are not, don't have that criminal background and maybe have some administrative violations. But I say it in courtrooms all the time and I say it to communities as well. If you're not going to lock someone up for the rest of their life, and that was how your sentence started. But if that's not the person's sentence, we need to be very cognizant about how that human being is returning to us when they are released because they are part of us and a part of our community.
And so to the extent that churches step up, communities step up, family is supportive.
Right? It takes all of that.
[00:35:15] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: Reentry isn't just a transition, it's a transformation in motion. For many, it's the hardest part of the journey. And our final segment will talk about legacy. How a life works, once written off can now give hope to so many.
And we're back. I'M Elizabeth Trifonis and this is Immigration Today on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation. Stay with Immigration Today on NOW Media Television. You can watch this program again or catch others anytime on Roku iOS or at www.nowmedia.com.
coming into our final section and talking with Sabrina and Arthur Medina, I want to speak specifically about inspiring others and how to use our past experiences and to shift our perceptions into moving forward into the future.
I think for Arthur, your story really started with something very tragic and something that remains tragic for the rest of your life and some other people's lives.
How do you become a source of inspiration for others?
And what is some of that advice you would give to others sitting in that belly of the well? And I'm also happy to hear from Sabrina. We were talking over the break about her experiences with that as well. But I'll let you start.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: No, I just think that you have to understand who you are, your position, identify the misbeliefs in your life, replace them with the truth and then like the Bible says, the truth will set you free.
I think living life one day at a time, not trying to get too far ahead of yourself, simply honoring God every step of the way and my family and then, you know, being the hands and feet of Jesus, that simple.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: Sabrina, you mentioned Arthur had a lot of goals.
[00:37:16] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: And can you describe what those look like and why you think those were so important?
[00:37:21] Speaker C: Well, we used to go, I used to go in with him to the prison and he would always share that. You know, set your 30 day, 60 day, 90 day.
And we, when we met, he was out already a year and, and he already had a job, so he was prepared.
But I didn't know he was going to be my husband at the time. But every time he accomplished a goal, it was very rewarding and we couldn't wait for the next one to come.
But, you know, life did throw us a lot of curve balls in the process, but we stuck with it. We stuck with the church. We had our accountability group and, you know, we had our people that we knew we could connect with when we struggled or things weren't going. I mean, we had AT&T cut out, cut the cable line and he was on a GPS monitor and that cut his GPS off.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: Supervised.
[00:38:30] Speaker C: Yeah. So that was like.
And we're going to church at the time? No, we're in church.
[00:38:35] Speaker B: I was in prison.
[00:38:36] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, you were in prison ministry. I mean, there's been so many times that they've done something to our cable line and it messes up and. And we're like, what's going on? You know, we're getting phone calls and they're trying to find him and it's like, what are you talking about? He's right here where he's supposed to be. But yeah, you just got to always stay on top of things.
Don't sell yourself short and never. You're not playing from behind. It's right where God wants you to be.
And, you know, have people that are going to hold you up and hold you accountable and you're going to be able to get through things.
[00:39:13] Speaker A: You mentioned that accountability group, and you also have some advice for people about relationships when they're reentering community. Can you share that advice with us?
[00:39:22] Speaker B: Oh, so, yeah. During the break, we talked about how in prison, one of the messages I share with the guys is that, you know, don't be so quick to run into. Get into a relationship with the opposite, you know, a female, because before God gave Adam Eve, he gave him a job first.
So get a job, establish yourself, and then God will. Will bring that woman for you.
There's no doubt in my mind that there's someone for everyone. So.
[00:39:59] Speaker A: And what's that accountability group look like?
You guys meet regularly and challenge each other on, call each other out and make sure that, yes, staying honest.
[00:40:11] Speaker C: We have several groups.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: I have different groups that kind of.
In fact, I had breakfast with my two main accountability partners and we sit down and we just hash out, you know, air out stuff that's bothering us or talk about work or just being open, knowing that it's a group, we can just be ourselves and then, you know, correct each other if we're on the wrong path or thinking outside of what we should be thinking.
[00:40:46] Speaker A: I find that a lot of the accountability piece, or when we deal with treatment courts or problem solving courts, the main focus and the shift in that type of court from a traditional criminal court, if you will, is that honesty piece.
We find a lot of folks with a criminal history have past traumas. Of course, we're all humans and that exists.
But a lot of us don't want to tell the truth because we're afraid of actually being caught and afraid of getting in trouble, and we're sort of negotiating that emotional space. You know, I don't want to upset my parent, I don't want to upset the judge, these things. So having that accountability piece and being able to be really honest with people is a real foundational key.
And then with your ministry and being honest with God, I think you would say is the most foundational piece?
[00:41:37] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:41:38] Speaker A: What should the audience know about your ministry or your business or things that you would like the community to be aware of?
[00:41:46] Speaker B: No, I think that some of the best hires that we've had in the company have been those that have been incarcerated.
They're doing phenomenal.
I think that in our industry, you know, people, it is a blessing to see someone that has just gotten out and he comes to work and you see that he's got people that have to give him a ride to work and learn how to get there on time, etc. And then after about 90 days or so, the next thing you know, they have their own car and now they're looking at getting their own apartment and just seeing the progression.
And it's just really a blessing to see that, you know, that it's making a difference.
And that's what it's about. We just want to make a difference, be a difference maker in our community.
[00:42:48] Speaker A: I actually, on the private side of my law office, have several paralegals, and I tell people this all the time.
My best paralegals have been through the system themselves.
They had their own felony situation that we resolved and maybe got dismissed. They've sat in that jail cell waiting for that bond hearing.
My other paralegals have had family members detained by ICE or been trying to work through the program to get their paperwork put together. And I tell you what, as an employer, someone who's been through the system is, number one, very grateful they're not in it. And number two, truly understands how impactful a piece of paperwork can be to get. Get in front of a judge or get the job done. I find folks that have been through it know how to minister to others and to really just bring that level of compassion to the table makes them the best employees I've ever had.
If you could share one piece, and I know one piece is maybe difficult of advice with a young person today who feels that their past defines them or. Or that they're in that situation where they're hustling and, you know, they're the adult at 13 years old. What's the advice that you would share and really hope they hear?
[00:44:01] Speaker B: Well, call it timeout.
I think I call it. I like sports so much that, you know, call it timeout, stop, because that's one of the things that we didn't do when we were younger. We. We just go out and we don't stop and think. You know, the cognitive intervention, that's what they call it.
If you Stop and think for a second, you'll see that you're on. If you're moving too fast, you have to slow down.
And if you just stop and think, that's all I mean, because that is where, where we're acting out of emotions or feelings and things of that nature.
When you're out there in a hustle and bustle and you just think you got to keep going and keep going fast in the fast lane. And that's not the case if you're that young.
Be a kid, be a kid. Enjoy while you can, you know, get into school. Because I still go to school now and I'm going to be 59 this year.
So I think that that was the one thing that I looked back. I should never have quit school. I should never have stopped going to school because now I ended up having to get my education in prison. And then when I got out, I had to continue going to school and stuff like that out here. But, yeah, give yourself a chance. Don't you know the world's not against you?
You just have to slow it down and just say, wait a minute, what
[00:45:46] Speaker A: am I doing right?
[00:45:47] Speaker B: You know, and if you just stop and think, you'll see, you know, and if you don't know what to do, please reach to the station. Reach out to you. If you want to ask me a question or, you know, need guidance of
[00:46:02] Speaker A: some sort of how should people get ahold of you? What's your preferred. Where should they look and who should they call?
[00:46:09] Speaker B: They can call my phone number, 281-815-7901.
That would be my number.
I'll be more than happy to take the call.
[00:46:22] Speaker C: But college is not for everyone. You can also do a trade.
I mean, we have grandkids that are doing trade and they love their, their job now.
So, you know, college is not for everyone. But find something that you love and you love doing. And because you're not doing a job, you're actually just having fun doing what you love, right?
[00:46:43] Speaker A: I like to remind people that I think we're going to live to a hundred years old. You don't have to have it figured out when you're 13 or 26 or 49 or 55 or whatever it is. We have still a lot to do and every day could be impactful, and every day thereafter can be impactful.
We were visiting just a little bit over the break about your views on the death penalty. And I'm quite curious about it as a defense attorney who is going to go to death penalty training Coming up. I definitely have a different view, and your view is quite interesting to me. So can you explain why you are actually pro death penalty?
[00:47:21] Speaker B: I am pro death penalty because of. That's biblical. Okay. And what I read is when Jesus was on the cross, there were two people there with him that were being crucified for committing crimes.
And one of them already made up his mind. Right. But the other one, it's interesting how the Lord told him, today, you'll be with me in paradise.
I mean, for him to say that he knew his heart, and if that was the case, then at that point, he could have easily, you know what, get him off the cross, let him go. Let him go and make a difference, an impact in his community. But he didn't. The execution took place, so there is accountability.
And.
And so I feel that in my case, had they given me the death penalty, it would have been the right sentence.
I got a life sentence. It was the right sentence.
I was able by God's grace, to demonstrate that that was the ignorance of my youth.
And today is a new creation in Christ.
And I'm grateful for the second chance that I've been given.
[00:48:36] Speaker A: Arts Transformation speaks to the power of second chances, resilience, compassion, and the human spirit. It's a reminder that every life has value and every story can evolve.
Thank you for watching Immigration today. Until next time, keep learning, keep questioning, keep believing in the possibilities of renewal and inspiration.
